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 Soul Prostitution
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In some kind of a pre collage lecture my father sat me down and gave a long talk about going out to the world...
There was to much talking in it but the last conclusion was (no matter what your believes are, when it comes to your relationships _specially with males_ and when it comes to your appearance, you should always follow the rules of the community you are living in ) ...
I had no problem with accepting what he is saying , I had no problem with accepting that there are people in this world who thinks like this, but what drove me over the edge was the fact that I was telling my self to do just like what he is telling me to do , I was saying to myself that it's just 5 years and I'll finish collage and I'll no longer have to follow anyone's orders , and to listen to my own self saying so was a real shock to me.
That was the moment I caught my self turning to on more faithless hypocrites of this country.
We live in a society that puts thoughts and religions in the end of it's priorities, a society that strongly refuses the existence of hookers because they sail their body for money, but the same society never finds it wrong to ask you to give up each and every believe of yours just to get its' blessing for what u do, do we really think bodies are more precious then thoughts?!!!
Lots of the individuals in this community have agreed to make this deal with the (customs demon ) , they sail there souls and minds to it by following the so called customs and traditions and it return Mr. community gives them the honor of being one of it.
It's a community of prostitutes, because selling souls isn't any better than selling bodies, a community of people who are getting sick of having to sale even their believes _that if they have ones_ to get this fake blessing of other individuals who are also felling sick of a such situation, if you are asking (if no one likes it then why dose it go one?), I'll tell you that's one thing I can't find out, but it looks that such a sick way of living keeps a certain order of control that the alder has over the younger, the government has over the people, the so called imams has over the public, its' always a fact that the peoples fear of change can make them accept abuse with absolute silence and with no resistance at all.
In this kind of communities it's very much possible for the people to create samples to follow even in the fields that needs creativity more then copying, for example in policy they will turn it from a game of thoughts and parties, into a game of families, leaders and big houses, all that because of the peoples need to follow not to lead, they are so used to walk in a previously drawn track, that they believed in some way that they can't draw their own tracks.
Also in family affairs _and as a daughter of a such community_ I can clearly see that I am given a lot of freedom as long the OTHERS don’t say it's wrong, the meaning : let's say we are in a wedding party, no one we'll say no if I wore a sleeveless short dress although it's religiously _as they explain Islam_ really wrong, but it's ok with them as long as it's the a COMMON thing, and when it's morning am still me they are still them but now it's the common to dress DESENTLY, not because god says so which is there excuse, but the truth is it's because of what the people says, I mean did god say it's ok to dress UNDESENTLY at night, or was god asleep at that time so you could wear what ever you want??, the thing is this society knows nothing about believing in any thing, I doubt it that they really know what believing in god is about, they'll do any thing they'll say any thing no matter how sick it is just to be blessed by each other, am sorry but this is one of the most hypocrite prostitute societies I've ever seen.
They had even dare to change the meanings of the words of the prophet Mohamed to legalize their deeds, in more than one way the prophet Mohamed told us how wrong it's for a person to desire superiority over others, the meaning clearly here is about being humble, is about understanding how we all are alike, is about loving others, but as a result of the cooperation between a very smart ruling mind and a very sick ruled mind the meanings were changed into that the right is to build a community of identical copies who all follow the rules very smoothly with no objections at all, a community where no one goes out of the flock just like if we are sheep.
The beauty of the human community is in the multi differences it contains, how ugly will a rainbow look if the colors got all mixed up to give us a cold brown line in the middle of the sky, it's the differences that brings us together not the similarity, it's the differences that makes us a society not a flock.
And for this reason I will not allow my self to be a face in the crowed, I love being different, I know lot's of you think that I am just on more angry spoiled teenager who knows nothing about the world, and let me tell you that I agree with this definition, but I also agree that it doesn't qualify any one to draw my life for me.
Am I right??
Do I see this community like how it really is??
Will the next five years that I'll live in Sudan change my mind??
Will I one day be a sheep in the flock??
Is there any excuse for the way this society works??
Some of this questions I ask u to answer them for me and some of them are for the coming years to answer, after all like what grandma loves to say :am just 18 what can I know!
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 Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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Thanks for sharing this essay with us. I have some comments to make.
You have stated above the following.
| Quote: I had no problem with accepting what he is saying , I had no problem with accepting that there are people in this world who thinks like this, but what drove me over the edge was the fact that I was telling my self to do just like what he is telling me to do , I was saying to myself that it's just 5 years and I'll finish collage and I'll no longer have to follow anyone's orders , and to listen to my own self saying so was a real shock to me. |
Well, I understood and sensed that you accepted what you were told as orders from your father. My question, was your father ordering you to do all the things he told you to ,or was he
offering an ideology in how you should be acting with males?
I thought that you could have spoken to your father as to voice your view in how your life should go. I think finishing school is a great thing to do, however , I wouldn’t be please to know that you want to finish your school b/c there is a statement you want to make. The statement goes as the following " Father, it has been nice knowing you ,but now I have my freedom and I'm moving out to run my life the way I want. Father , I’m able to do that ,b/c I have just finished school and I can get a job that can back me up " . the statement ends. I hope this is not your motive, if you disagree with your father, make things clear to him through talking them over and through a friendly conversation.
Last point! You have raised interesting issues and indeed all were well put and done throughout the lines of your essay. I’m going to do more reading on it
(عدل بواسطة Muhib on 09-06-2004, 04:50 PM)
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 Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Muhib)
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In any none religion communities things are to be very clear as to answer why the people of such communities act in twisted ways and if not odd ways. In such communities, everyone does what he or she wants not according to a religion code line, but according to self believe in whatever is going to be done ,is the right thing. On the other hand, the community you have pictured for us is very clear that it follows a religion everyone would know what the religion is by finishing reading your essay. If that community doesn’t follow the exact orders of the religion that all or most people believe in, I don’t want you to be surprised or to feel sad. It is the human nature, some do follow, others don't and you do the wise thing.
I might add more later .. Muhib
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Muhib)
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Quote: In any none religion communities things are to be very clear as to answer why the people of such communities act in twisted ways and if not odd ways. In such communities, everyone does what he or she wants not according to a religion code line, but according to self believe in whatever is going to be done ,is the right thing. On the other hand, the community you have pictured for us is very clear that it follows a religion everyone would know what the religion is by finishing reading your essay. If that community doesn’t follow the exact orders of the religion that all or most people believe in, I don’t want you to be surprised or to feel sad. It is the human nature, some do follow, others don't and you do the wise thing.
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I'm not asking any one to follow religion as I see it or as any one sees it. I just wish that whatever ones does is done in a deep believe that this is the right thing to do not the (common thing to do) which is absolutely different.
No matter is it praying, dressing, studying or even drinking alcohol, I pay more respect to a drunk who drinks because he thinks it's the right thing, than a prayer who prays because every one does it.
I want to live in a place where people are who they are because they want to, wouldn't that be beautiful.
| Quote: I might add more later .. Muhib |
i can't wait to talk to u again
thanx for all
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Muhib)
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Quote: Thanks for sharing this essay with us. I have some comments to make.
You have stated above the following.
| Quote: I had no problem with accepting what he is saying , I had no problem with accepting that there are people in this world who thinks like this, but what drove me over the edge was the fact that I was telling my self to do just like what he is telling me to do , I was saying to myself that it's just 5 years and I'll finish collage and I'll no longer have to follow anyone's orders , and to listen to my own self saying so was a real shock to me. |
Well, I understood and sensed that you accepted what you were told as orders from your father. My question, was your father ordering you to do all the things he told you to ,or was he
offering an ideology in how you should be acting with males?
I thought that you could have spoken to your father as to voice your view in how your life should go. I think finishing school is a great thing to do, however , I wouldn’t be please to know that you want to finish your school b/c there is a statement you want to make. The statement goes as the following " Father, it has been nice knowing you ,but now I have my freedom and I'm moving out to run my life the way I want. Father , I’m able to do that ,b/c I have just finished school and I can get a job that can back me up " . the statement ends. I hope this is not your motive, if you disagree with your father, make things clear to him through talking them over and through a friendly conversation.
Last point! You have raised interesting issues and indeed all were well put and done throughout the lines of your essay. I’m going to do more reading on it |
Well muhib I'm not trying to say that my father is a dictator and I'm not trying to say that he is forcing me to do things his way, no the truth he is a very understanding man, and we had always been different and it caused no problem for any of us.
About the "it had been nice knowing you ..." thing, if i was the kind of people who could say so, then it wasn't going to be a trouble to wait until i finish collage with my dads money and then I'll say goodbye, but that was never the issue for me, what I want to see in my self is a person who holds on to her believe.
I pay no respect for people who relate there mental freedom with there financial freedom, those are also selling there souls, they sell it to money, and if they are imagining that one day when they'll have enough they'll be free then they are so wrong, because when it's not money it will be community, the ruling regime, ore even just to keep breathing, they'll always have a reason to keep silence.
My motive is that I want to make of my self a person who can stand up for what she wants, a person who never bargains when it comes to her believes.
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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No, mizn you are absolutely wrong
fathers aim to transfer their deep knowledge and experience to their children specially about the norms and traditions of their community>
In fact it is the community that you are going to deal with and that your interaction with such community needs to be guided with information about its norms>
You have to know what are those behaviours that your own community expects from you and I am confident as your father is confident too that you are going to follow the right choice >
Any how it is your choice and it is also the role of your parents to transfer these information to you>
All of us need be educated about this stuff and it would enable you with more freedom if you are seeking your freedom as a teenager, cause when you follow a responsible behaviour then you will possess more confident of your own family and you will prove that you need very less guidance>
thanks for the frank dessmination of your ideas and i have opted to reply in English as you have written>
If you need any further help then just reply
Ahmed Al Shaigi
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: أحمد الشايقي)
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Quote: No, mizn you are absolutely wrong
fathers aim to transfer their deep knowledge and experience to their children specially about the norms and traditions of their community>
In fact it is the community that you are going to deal with and that your interaction with such community needs to be guided with information about its norms>
You have to know what are those behaviours that your own community expects from you and I am confident as your father is confident too that you are going to follow the right choice >
Any how it is your choice and it is also the role of your parents to transfer these information to you>
All of us need be educated about this stuff and it would enable you with more freedom if you are seeking your freedom as a teenager, cause when you follow a responsible behaviour then you will possess more confident of your own family and you will prove that you need very less guidance>
thanks for the frank dessmination of your ideas and i have opted to reply in English as you have written>
If you need any further help then just reply
Ahmed Al Shaigi |
بخصوص العربي ...
ولا تزعل يا سيدي نكتب ليك بالعربي ...
انا اللي عايزة اوصلوه مش اعتراض من مواقف ابوي ... انا اعتراضي على موقفي انا ...
اعتراضي على الافكار اللي كانت بتجي في راسي واللي كانت بتدفعني باتجاه الموافقة على التصرف بشكل معين بعيد كل البعد عن قناعاتي ...و طبعا التصرف دة كان مدفوع بحاجتي لمباركة والداي التي هي الوسيلة الوحيدة لاكمال دراستي على حسابهم ...
يعني بالعربي كدة ببيع قناعاتي في مقابل قروش اتم بيها قرايتي ...
ايا كانت الحاجات اللي هم بيحاولو يقنعوني بيها ... و ايا كان رأيك في صحتها او خطاهااكيد انت بتتفق معاي في رفض قيامي بي اي فعل يستند الى قناعات مش بس لا اؤمن بها بل كمان باتخذ من انقيادي لها وسيلة لربح مادي (اللي هو في الحالة دي قروش لي الجامعة) ...
my point was ... اني ادخل من النقطة لي وجود ناس كتير جدا في المجتمع بتعيش بالطريقة دي ... مش بس كدة لكن المجتمع كلة بيقوم على تراتبية بيع المعتقدات في مقابل مختلف الاشياء ...
i wish u go further in what i wrote so we could disscus other thing that i say much more important
thanx for caring !!!
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Dia eldin khalil)
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Quote: mozn u have something special
i'm gona tell u about it
but not now i have to go
but i like ur post so much
yellla i'll be back
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well ... i can't wait to see what u have to say....
am realy glad that u liked what i wrote
am waiting for you
so be back soon
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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Dear Mozan, greetings,
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts here and more thanks for your courage in
thinking , critically, about issues most Sudanese would at least feel reluctant if not embarassed to discuss. I personally agree that one should do what Romans do if one happened to be in Rome.However, if they -Romans- are doing something you really hate and can not live with, I would avoid going to Rome in the first place.That said, however,you may have no option to be/do what you want to be/do e.g having to rely on parents for the cost of your studies or living in a country where a dress code was enforced by the authority.In this situation, I am afraid you are stuck and will continue to remind yourself of the "chores" mentioned by your dad such as the dress code etc, which you obviously do not like.All the attempts at trying to please "Mr. Community" probably stems from lack of choice.
I think you are also right to make the general point that people seem to do things just
to be part of the herd.This would have been OK bye me, if the "herd" is going somewhere promising!! , unfortunately this is not the case in our part of the world.Hence the need to encourage people like yourself to dig deep into the reason of: why do we say/do things that, we most times, never believed in them
You asked
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Quote: Am I right??
Do I see this community like how it really is |
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I think the answer to your first and second questions should be YES, generally, you are right to think the way you did. May come back some time later.
Thank you
Adil
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Adil Isaac)
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Mr. Adil Isaac
Thank YOU for reading what I wrote and for taking the time to discuss it with me.
So in Rome I should be a roman, and in Egypt ?? an Egyptian ?? And in America?? An American??
I don’t really understand where does this leave the real me, am I supposed to be a copy of the people around and that's all??
I think there is always an option; I think you can always change your surroundings in one way or another.
Taking the right options is all what human life is about, the day I'll lose the right to chose is the day I'll lose my humanity.
About the herd thing, I'll tell you that making wrong choices with real faith is a lot better than making the right ones just to follow and be accepted by others, faith comes way before any other thing.
I'm so glad you see in me some one who can make a difference in things.
From your words I can tell we are very different, but I think that'll make the conversation much more promising to bring out some new thoughts.... thanx
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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| Quote: I know lot's of you think that I am just one more angry spoiled teenager who knows nothing about the world, and let me tell you that I agree with this definition, but I also agree that it doesn't qualify any one to draw my life for me |
الاخت الصغيره (او الابنه) مزن
I don't think that you are an angry teenager
But I think you looking to answer questions that created in a situation that you have nothing to do with.
No one will draw your life for you, but your parents might be able to give you some guidelines on how deal with certain situations
I wish you good luck with your search
النصرى امين
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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Ok Misn
I really do not bother to express my ideas in both languages as u may know that i am a professional linguist so I have never been angry>
Your English is really astonishing so keep up in using the language for far better levels>
the main Idea that I would like to share with you is that you just have taken the matter as such as I am sure that parents always believe that all their lives belong to their loved kids so plz do not go on in misinterpreting your father's direction this way abvious in your words>
You may like the fashion in which westerners deal with their kids and the portion of freedom available there but do not miss the social and economic factors of western states where the state would supply much care to unemployed people and youth at large in addition to the very high living standards, health care, social insurance, job opportunities and so on.
It would not be so faithfull to meet care, love and keenness of parents with such feelings that you bear in misinterpretation of their inner feelings.
May be your father did not succeed in passing his real feelings to you in making the dictation of his terms as preconditions of your expected behaviours but really he would be taking it the same way I mentioned>
So live happily and enjoy the care of your parents and may you instead make your parents satisfied that you are going to act the way they have directed not as a matter of pretending but as a matter of real belief that this is the correct way of behaviour within the given community and circumstances.
After all this I believe we may have reached a common understanding and there would be no need for the strange feelings to take you over to incorrect results.
At last this way you will gain more portions of freedom>
Ahmed Al Shaigi
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: أحمد الشايقي)
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استاذ: النصري امين
(Looking for answers)... don’t we all do... looking for answers is what life is about... we'll never find all the answers because that takes being a god to do it ... but we also wouldn't stop asking because that takes being dead to do it ...
I'll keep asking as long as am alive ... and I hope I'll always find some answer some where.
All I wanted to say is that we all are good enough to make our own choices and no matter how it'll be different than other people's choices _I think _ it should be accepted.
My parents are always welcomed to share their experiences with me, but _specially if you think of me like a daughter_ I don’t think you'll want me to follow those experiences with out having faith in them... would you ??
thanx
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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أستاذ عادل عثمان
You know I always wanted to be like those people who you can tell them your name and the write it in the right way no matter how difficult it is, but I was never good in spelling... but I promise you to do some better work next time ... thanks a lot ...
I'm so thankful that someone took the conversation a little farther than the me and my father's story which I don’t see it as a priority in discussion .. so thanxxx
Individuality was my main point, people are becoming copies of each others, we no longer have enough courage to say no
ببساط نحنا شعوب صامتة لدرجة صنعت منا بلدان قابلة للنهب قابلة للبقاء لعقود تحت حكم أنظمة لا تكتسب تأييد فرد واحد من الشعب رغم ذلك تبقى لأنها كما لا تلاقي أي تأييد كذلك لا تلاقي أي رفض... اديني سبب بعد كدة يخليهم ما يسرقونا أو حتى يستعبدونا...
It's a chain of reaction ... once you let go of one right of yours, then you are just opening the gate for more rights to be taken from you.
What keeps driving me crazy is how beautiful those people are, how each and every one of them is such a unique one in a million, but they just give away this beautiful multiplicity of colors to create a cold culture of similarity,
انا ما طالبة انو الناس كلها تكون مثالية تماما و تتجه نحو الكمال بان تنشد الايمان في كل افعالها, انا لم اطلب ان اعيش في اليوتوبيا بل على الاقل ان اعيش بين اناس يحاولون ان يجعلوا من مدينتهم يوتوبيا
I mean if we can imagine the existence of a such place then I'm sure we can create it, and if we can create it we sure can keep it and if we can keep it we sure deserve it.
Oooops ... i think i got a little dreamy ... so back to the subject ...
معظم مفاهيم الجماعة كرستها قرون من الحياة القبلية... يمككنا ببساطة أن نلاحظ ان المناطق التي تتعزز فيها فكرت الاستقلاللية هي بلدان المستعمرات كامريكا و استراليا و حتى جنوب افريقيا الى حد ما بينما الدول الاخرى مهما بلغ تطورها تحت فكرة التجمعات و هو امر طبيعي فلا يمكننا ان نقارن تاثير قرون و حضارات من القبلية و التجمع بتاثير بضع عقود من التحرر او بمعنى اصح التفرد حيث ان كلمة التحرراكتسبت سمعة سيئة في اللغة العربية ... بمناسبة الحديث عن الكلمات فان ترسبات هذه الحضارة التجمعية طالت الكثير من المفردات فيصعب مثلا استخدام الترجمة المباشرة
لكلمة
fundamentalism
لان كلمة (أصولية) في الفكر العربي لا تحمل أي معنى سيء خاصة و هو فكر يقدس التمسك بالأصول و عدم التغيير فيها ... ما أردت قوله هو أن الثقافة القبلية لا تزال مؤثرة بشكل كبير في الشارع العربي و هي أبدى ما يكون في الجوانب السياسية و التي حورت بشكل ما جعلها أشبه بحروب القبائل ... فالأحزاب عبارة عن بيوت و عائلات و رجال الدولة هم كبار هؤلاء البيوت و ما هم سوى شكل متطور لشيوخ القبيلة
I just think this kind of living is holding us back from the world
شكرا شكرا شكرا ... لأنك فتحت باب أوسع للنقاش و بالنسبة للغة أنا بفضل اني اكون حرة في الانتقال بين اللغتين ... أحيانا في عبارات بيكون صعب توصيلها بإحدى اللغتين و أسهل بالأخرى
I mean try to say soul prostitution in Arabic with out being soooo misunderstood
THANXXX
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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أستاذ احمد الشايقي
I'm so glad; I mean you can't always find a pro. to tell you that you are ASTONISHING ... SO ... THANXXX
Now back to the my father issue ... it's really nice of you to give this much effort to get me in the right track with my parents, but it's just that we didn't really get of track, I pay them a lot of respect and so do them to me.
About the influence of the western culture; I'll say that the one thing this culture taught is to do things my way, my way could be identical to yours or could be really different the point is (I've done it because I believed deeply in it) and I think this is a very civilized way of living.
Hypocrites are worse than unbelievers this is what I deeply believed in, and it's also what had been clearly cleared by the words of god ..
Thanks a lot and I would have really liked it if I could know what u think about the rest of the issues I talked about.
Thank you
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 Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مراويد)
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Dear Muzan
I kept following this post from the date you sent it, and keep visiting it every now and then
This time, I came to highlight certain issues of debate, which I was able to come up with from your story, and found that Adil Osman has done the job excellently
.Thanks to all for the interesting discussion
Best regards, and please continue
Iman
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: إيمان أحمد)
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Marawid bro
Thanx for the encouragement ... it's always great to know that there is some one backing you up... I hope I can once be as you described ... a person who faces life with an open mind and listen to others and every thing... I guess this is what we all want to be... some says it's to idealistic and unreal ... but I think that it is how every person should be to have the honor of being called a human being...(respect doesn't mean obedience)... I hope people can understand that ... thanx again
***************
Iman ...
It's such a nice thing to know that you had been here all the time... the issues that Adel Osman brought up are really important and discussing them is more than a one person's job ... so I'll be really glad to see what you have to say about the issues already brought up and maybe about some others too... thanx
***************
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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Yea, right sister Mizn
By the way I may not be pronouncing your name the correct way. Any how people in Sudan do like the rainy season cause it carries their entire life so they have given their kids names like (Ballah) and (Balal) as it stands for rain in Arabic. Your name might have been the same way, but I am not sure how to make it as Muzn or Mizn , any how plz show how to write it in the way you like.
I told you that your English is astonishing; it was not so much accurate. I meant to say that your entire expression is like that, really astonishing. You launch your thoughts and crystallize opinions in a very powerful way. I did not tend to praise you as such but I meant to draw your attention to go further in your readings and knowledge gaining so you might achieve very big success in your academic and functional life.
See, what I really would like to stress upon here is that you tend to experiment and try to accuse in your strive to reach conclusions.
In this board and in all my political history, I have suffered a lot from Sudanese arguers who are always ready to put fixed ideas into philosophical test once and again. This way any one would end up without fixed ideas. I do not mean fixed to establish rigid maxims that should apply any where but I would like to get you direct your thinking towards a method of thinking which is (subjective).
If you take my own advice, plz try always to be analytical and start from premises of a given situation covering all its factors that influence it then you can apply the method of scientific research in taking the correct findings lead you to logical results.
When you speak about any subject try not generalize as what can apply to one situation my not be valid for another and I have noticed this when you tend to interpret your own family position in the light of society's do(s) and don't(s).
It is always good to raise questions and get the correct answers, but fast and easy answers, moody answers and biased answers would lead you to isolated positions where you would never find one to agree with you.
All what I tried to explain is the method of scientific research. And through this method the thinkers always try to hold themselves neutral and leave the logic of events and the flow of information lead them to results which would be of high percentage of accuracy.
See Mizn, this method of thinking requires that you should not engage your personal desires in your strive to crystallize opinion, leave behind your likes , dislikes, love , hatred, lust, hunger, wanting and other emotions and just think of the matter as if it is not your own matter.
I am not so much concerned to influence your way of thinking and I believe I cannot even do that, but I am trying to add something that can improve your thinking strategies and take to the right path. If you need a dialogue I can call you any time you prefer just drop me a message at [email protected].
Thanks and may God keep you safe.
Ahmed Al Shaigi
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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مزن
you are right
some people prostitute their bodies. we might find excuse for this group. but the people who prostitute their souls, and sell them to the devil; what is their excuse.? those who sell their souls and consciences are everywhere. especially among well-educated people.
they appear to be modern, liberal and intellectual. they embrace the values of freedom and equality and fairness and the public good. but they betray these values at the first opportunity. these values would become the tools which bring them renown and notice. but their declarations are just lip-service. those who advocate human dignity and worth and freedom, would be the first to join and work, entusiastically, with brutal regimes. not only that; they help justify and legitimize the regime's brutality and mismanagement of the country.
those who declare, day in day out, their respect for women and women's rights, would denounce women who appear to be confident and independent, by accusing them of being loose and morally lax.
yes, you are right. there is some sort of moral and intellectual schizophrenia among this small, yet very influential, section of our society. even at the social and family level, this mindset is prevalent. you mentioned the apt example of dressing. you said , they think it is ok for a girl to wear a fashionable dress in a wedding party, and the society would perceive it as appropriate and decent. wear this same dress the next morning, and it would be deemed indecent or immoral; to the extent that the state could take you to court and sentence you and send you to prison or fine you or flog you with a whip made of ox tail. this same ox tail can make a very delicious soup!!
now, modern disciplines, like psychology and sociology are used to try to understand individual, as well as, communal behaviors. i think that , it is high time we study our sudanese society and cultures, social or political, from the perspective of these modern sciences.
this is an introductory contribution in this important topic which you have, eloquently and forcefully, started to debate
continue doing so ya muzan
واصلى يا مزن هذا النقاش الخلاق
سوف اعود لمتابعة ما بدأت من كتابة موجزة، وقد تنقصها الكفاءة على التعبير
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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دى ترجمة لكلامى الفوق ده، وذلك لمشاركة من يرغب فى النقاش باللغة العربية
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مزن
معك حق
بعض الناس يعهرون بأجسادهم، وقد نجد لهم العذر على ذلك. ولكنّ الذين يمارسون الدعارة الفكرية، ويبيعون أرواحهم للشيطان، ما هو عذرهم؟ وهذا النوع الذى يبيع روحه وضميره موجود فى كلّ مكان. خصوصآ فى أوساط النخبة المتعلمة. يظهرون بمظهر المتحضرين واللبراليين والمثقفين. ويعتنقون قيم الحرية والمساواة والعدالة والنزاهة والخير للناس. ولكنهم سرعان ما يخونون هذه القيم وهذه المبادئ فى أول فرصة! هذه القيم تكون بالنسبة لهم الوسائل التى تجلب لهم الصيت والشهرة وتجعلهم مرموقين. غير أنّ إدعاءاتهم لا تعدو أن تكون كلام خشم فقط ومحض هراء
الذين يبشرون بكرامة الانسان وحريته وإحترامه، هم أول من ينضم إلى الانظمة المستبدة ويتفانى فى خدمتها بكل همة ونشاط. بل أكثر من ذلك، يحاولون تبرير سياستها القمعية، وإضفاء الشرعية عليها وعلى خطل إدارتها للحكم فى البلاد
وأولئك الذين لا يملّون من إعلان إحترامهم للنساء وحقوقهنّ، لا يجدون حرجآ فى تجريح المرأة الواثقة فى نفسها والمستقلة فى تفكيرها، وذلك باتهامها بالانحلال والسقوط الأخلاقى!
نعم يا مزن. معك حقّ. ثمة انفصام فكرى وأخلاقى، يعشعش فى أوساط هذه النخبة محدودة العدد، عظيمة النفوذ. وحتى على المستوى الاجتماعى وعلى مستوى العائلة، هذا النوع من العقل المنفصم يسود. لقد ذكرتى مثالآ قويآ على ذلك حين تحدثتى عن موضوع الزى. قلتى إنّ المجتمع لا يرى غضاضة أن تلبس البنت فستانآ يتماشى مع الموضة فى حفلة عرس. فستانآ فصيرآ وبلا أكمام. ويرون أنّه ملائم. وتقوم القيامة لو لبستى هذا الفستان صباح اليوم التالى. هذا لبس غير محتشم، ومسئ للأخلاق! ليس هذا فحسب: بل قد تمسكك الشرطة وتعرضك لقاضى يحكم عليك بالسجن أو الغرامة أو الجلد بسوط مصنوع من ذنب ثور غليد. ومن نفس هذا الضنب يصنعون حساءآ ما أطعمه. لذيذ
فى عالم اليوم ثمة علوم حديثة مثل علم النفس وعلم نفس المجتمع والاجتماع وغيرها، تسعى لفهم السلوك البشرى على مستوى الأفراد والجماعات كذلك. لقد حان الوقت فى تقديرى، لدراسة مجتمعنا، وثقافاته كافة من منظور هذه العلوم والمناهج الحديثة. لعلّ وعسى!
هذه مقدمة لمساهمتى فى هذا الموضوع الحيوى الذى بادرتى بالكتابة عنه ونقاشه بقلم فصيح ومبين وجرئ
واصلى يا مزن هذا النقاش الخلاق
سوف اعود لمتابعة ما بدأت من كتابة موجزة، وقد تنقصها الكفاءة على التعبير
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Adil Osman)
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استاذ احمد الشايقي
First of all I just want to assure that I wasn't implying to my name I really do get impressed by people who are wonderful in spelling and grammars and yes you are right my name means raining clouds,
وهو جمع الجموع لمزنة ... حيث مزنة تجمع مُزْن و مُزْن تجمع مُزَن و عليه يكون على وزن فُــــــعَـــــــــل .... يعني كما ننطق كلمة زحل
So in English it probably should be written (Muzan)
You can never imagine how flattered and overwhelmed I am, so I just want to thank you for your words.
Now the main subject, you are very much right you know, I would like to be able to be a little emotion free when it comes to discussing my own experiences and I know very well that this can help me see things better and come out with real solutions, but it's really hard to do so, because it's me in this words in every letter and even every space.
Sometimes I feel it's better if someone who is not involved in the situation can talk about it, but an outsider can never get it all, and in the same time an insider _who knows almost all_ can't be neutral, it's just like watching news, if you are watching the national TV you'll know that every word is very well studied to back up the ruling regime, and if you are watching international channels you'll always know that they can never have the full truth because they are never there to experience and know, it's very confusing, but if there is a way out of it; I think it'll be for the insider to talk and tell and for the _neutral_ outsider to analyze and correct where the insider went wrong, that's why I think I've made a good start here, and it's for you as readers to help me getting in the right track.
About generalizing, in some places I was really talking about the society it's not all my family, but in others it was partly my family because first they do present a part of this society and second they are the part I deal with the most, so in this generalizing issue I'm not sure if I'm wrong or right , I'll take some time to think and I'll be back to it.
Big huge thanx
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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dear Adil Osman
You know what, some people even dear to take it further, up to asking
others to participate in the big prostitution carnival , they ask you to shut up, they ask you to keep it low when it comes to your believes that are very refused just because they aren't the same as their believes.
Believe me, if I started giving examples of soul prostitution I'll never stop, but this isn't the point, the point is to find an explanation and a solution.
Well we ever find it? I don't know, but I know that I want to say I tried.
About clothe!!! I'll tell you we have a very confused and unstable relation with our bodies, I don’t mean Sudanese or Arab or Muslims, I mean human beings, and this confusion well take centuries of a new civilization to change it, and that is a very different subject, you know what... I think I'm gonna write about it... give me a couple of days.
About studying this society, I'll tell you it'll always be very hard to study a community with this much of multi differences and with all those different cultures surrounding and effecting it, but it'll sure be easier if people could understand that the Sudanese community is more than just a mix of Arab culture and African culture, the truth is there is a whole different culture that came out of those two (African/Arab), a culture that should be studied with out trying to just divide into Arabic and African, but trying to understand it.
I think I went a little far.
Waiting for you to be back
thanx
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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Muzan
Salamat
I know. You have taken the discussion a little bit further by your usual energetic and clear thinking.
I come to the discussion board from a diverse schedule of commitments; work, family, and the slowness of old age
I will be back soon, to continue this lively debate
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Adil Osman)
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Dear Muzan, Adil and all,
I keep visiting this interesting post. And would like to take it a bit further, to highlight the effects of migration on our "culture". I do beleive that culture is very dynamic. It is in a constant state of movement, both affecting and being affected by other cultures and those who belong to them
So, the conflict is very apparent in youth who have lived in societies other than the Sudanese (this can happen by either being out of Sudan, or having a relatively different home environment within Sudan). I can see it very clearly in those who are raised outside Sudan, and are, funny enough...... forced to follow codes that do not represent a meaningful realm to them
I will try to cite an example from an issue that raised a lot of controversy. When I watched the show of the "Brides of the Nile", last June......and read the criticism by many........ I had to stop and rethink the opinions that said: This DOES NOT REPRESENT SUDANESE BRIDAL DANCE... IT DOES NOT REPRESENT "OUR" CULTURE.....And asked myself: Why would these people want the young ladies who performed the dance to represent "their" culture, and not present "the girls' own understanding of the Sudanese culture and how they relate to it
Honestly, I consider this to be cultural hegemony and one more example of the codes to be followed
Thanks, and keep disentagling these issues, please.
Iman
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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people are afraid of change. and afraid of stepping outside the norm, the familiar, the known and the approved. they should abide by and conform to the average behavior. they are not expected to excell, or show any hint of individual independence, as individuality is a challenge. a challenge to what is established. a challenge to the establishment. opposition is a challenge to the political establishment. a challenge to the authority. oppose your parents, and you would become bad mannered
ask challenging questions at school, and you would become a rebel. our society and our culture are built on authoritarian foundations. command, obedience. the social conditioning is to punish opposition and reward conformity. a "good boy" that means: he is quiet. he is obedient. he never expresses dissent. or raises up his voice. no challenge to a teacher, or a father or a dictator. if you ask questions at home, or showed any hint of independence in thinking, then you must be ladeeh and faseeh{1} the girl who shows similar attitudes must be gahir and jasir{2
people are afraid of individuality. they do not have self confidence. they can not articulate well what they want, or what they like or dislike. their characters and personlaities are plain at best, or nonexistent at worst. I started the primary school towards the end of 1960s. I had no problems at school because i was "bright" and "priviliged" as such. but those who were less able academically, were humiliated and insulted and punished for being stupid . I had some suspicions that some teachers enjoyed inflicting psychological as well as physical pain on unfortunate pupils and students.
see. a child is beaten at home and in school. not only beaten, but persecuted and humiliated, and treated like an animal
what do you expect from such a child? he/she will be traumatized forever, and injured in their very soul and humanity
Please continue this lively debate. I shall be back soon
{1} لديح وفصيح
{2} قاهر وجاسر
لم اتمكن من ايراد هذه الكلمات العربية فى جسد النص دون تخريب نسقه واتساقه. فقررت ان اوردها فى هذا الهامش المرتجل
(عدل بواسطة Adil Osman on 09-16-2004, 12:19 PM)
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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Muzan and other contributors and readers of this post
i believe we are talking about sudan and sudanese life in towns and in villages and in the hinterland. and why people become the way they are. do/did they have freedom of choice? were they masters of their own destinies, so to speak?
in this context, i read a post on sudaneseonline, chronicling the life and political history of one of the leaders of sudan, albeit in opposition. Al Tijani al Tayeb, the famous leader of the sudan communist party. Here is part of his narrative. what he said about being born and brought up in a village in northern sudan in the 1930s:
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At this point, the conversation veers away from personal trials, to focus instead on the unspeakable poverty and degradation of Al-Tijani's people. "The Sudanese are angry and frustrated," he insists. "Some 90-95 per cent of them live below the poverty line."
Unfortunately, those in power in Khartoum prefer to evade this issue, using nationalist frustrations and humiliations to resist the demand for change.
"Sudan has always been a poor country. I myself was born into abject poverty," Al-Tijani adds, nonchalantly.
But despite the fact that he, his family and his entire village lived pretty much on the breadline, he retains a deep emotional attachment to his home village. He is fiercely proud of his roots.
Al-Tijani was born deep in the rural backwaters of northern Sudan, in the village of Al-Shaghalwa, three kilometres from Shendi, itself a sleepy provincial town 170 kilometres north of the Sudanese capital Khartoum.
"I remember the destitution, the lack of amenities," he recalls. "There was no fresh meat: most villagers could not afford to slaughter their animals." Only on major feasts and celebrations, such as weddings and the Eid Al-Adha (Feast of the Sacrifice), did the wealthier villagers indulge in the traditional Islamic ritual.
Al-Tijani's neighbours were Jaialiyin, and considered themselves Arabs, unlike their Nubian neighbours. They even claimed descent from Al-Abbas, the Prophet Mohamed's paternal uncle.
Traditionally, they would shun fish, though it is an important source of animal protein. Al-Tijani's father was perhaps the only man in the village who encouraged his family to eat fish. His mother, Batool, hated cleaning and cooking fish. She did not understand why of all the village's women she was forced to cook the "stinking stuff", as she contemptuously called it.
As children, Al-Tijani and his 11 siblings were forbidden to drink water from the well in the village. The water was brackish, and the father insisted, much to the consternation of the women of the household, on using distilled and purified Nile water instead.
Al-Tijani's mother was a distant relative of his father. She came from Serdiya, a small island in the middle of the river in the vicinity of Shendi. Today, Al-Tijani remembers Serdiya as a rural idyll. "After the flood waters receded, we would go there to spend the winter. It was a season of plenty. Corn was plentiful, the livestock fattened and healthy, and the grass so green," he reminisces.
Talk of Al-Shaghalwa evoke nostalgic images of groves of date palms; but it also brings back painful memories.
Al-Tijani's father, who was born in Omdurman, emigrated from Khartoum to Shendi in the aftermath of the 1924 Revolution and the rise of the so-called White Flag League. His father participated in the 1924 Revolution and his children were well aware of political activism.
His father, Al-Tayeb, "was an enlightened man for his time. But despite that, he still had three wives: one in Omdurman, who died giving birth to a sister; Al-Tijani's mother; and another younger and more beautiful woman."
One of Al-Tijani's most deeply etched memories is of his mother and his step-mother constantly bickering over trivia. His step-mother only bore her husband daughters; as a result, she found herself unceremoniously divorced, and had to leave Shendi.
With his easy sense of self-deprecation and casual wit, Al-Tijani speaks at length and without hesitation about his humble origins. The passion in his voice is palpable. But such story-telling is not enough: he also needs to show how the deprivations of his people can be explained in terms of historical materialism.
Al-Shaghalwa was not simply blissful and idyllic. Poverty, disease and death were painful reminders of the terrible underdevelopment that afflicted Khartoum's immense hinterlands.
"And I remember the deaths." Al-Tijani suddenly seems to jolt out of his reverie. "The deaths of many, many children. I remember the numerous little graves in the village cementry. Hundreds of tiny graves. Rows and rows of them."
"Children then were susceptible to all kinds of disease. Medical care was very limited, if not completely unavailable. There were no clinics or hospitals. Children who ran a fever died within days, sometimes hours. Measles, chicken pox, meningitis and cholera were fatal diseases in those days. They still are," he laments, "but the scale then was horrendous in its magnitude, and the repercussions heart-wrenching."
Winter was the season of elimination: "If children survived their fourth year, then the hopes that they would survive into manhood, or womanhood, were greatly enhanced."
Al-Tijani left Al-Shaghalwa when he was eight to attend school in Khartoum, and the entire family moved with him. But he remembers his native village vividly, and he still has a few friends there. "Those that are still alive," he chuckles.
"Our generation is a unique one," he muses. "We were witness to the worst atrocities and repression of the colonial administration. We witnessed how our country was milked dry by the colonial authorities."
Al-Tijani Al-Tayeb: A revolutionary path
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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Muzan,
Greetings
i brought excerpts of the interview with the commuinst leader, because he was talking as an individual, and was narrating individual experiences and his perception thereof.
the excerpts, also, shed some light on the socio-economic and political settings in sudan in the 1930s. the irony is, you can put 2004 instead of 1930 and the narrative would be an honest account of sudan in the 21st century. Nothing of essence has changed. 70 years of turmoil and tragedy and mayhem in sudan, but nothing of essence has changed! tragic? isn't it?!
stagnation is, also, one of the characteristics of underdevelopped societies. and clinging to the old ways.
I remeber when I was a young boy growing in khartoum north, some of our relatives would visit us from their village in northern sudan and stay with us for some time, long stay or short stay!
A perpetual and sacrosanct ritual for some of them was to pay a visit to the tomb and mauseleum of sayyid Ali al Mirghani and his holy family in Hillat Khojali, not very far from our family home.
It was my duty to take them to that place. I was reluctant to do so. But i had to follow orders! or be punished!
When we get there, I would tease my relatives by taking the mickey out of this ritual. there , they would rub holy soil/sand on their faces and arms. some of them would wrap some dust in their turbans (men), or in their tobes (women).. this is Baraka! they would tell me.! It will help you succeed in life.
I think now, if all sudanese leaders did wrap some holy dust somewhere in their vicinity, sudan would have become a great nation. just like America! or even better!
shall be back soon.
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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where is Muzan and other colleagues? come back. I don't want to monopolize the post, though it is tempting to do so. I would be satisfying some dictatorial tendencies, and control freakery
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Adil Osman)
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Adil
You are definitely not monopolizing the post
| Quote: the irony is, you can put 2004 instead of 1930 and the narrative would be an honest account of sudan in the 21st century. Nothing of essence has changed. 70 years of turmoil and tragedy and mayhem in sudan, but nothing of essence has changed! tragic? isn't it?! |
This is very thoughtful of you
Thanks, and keep enriching the post, so that when Muzan is back, there is a lot of "flesh" to be discussed
Iman
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: إيمان أحمد)
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مزن ..
دائما كان هدفي في العالم ده الإنحلال والتحلل , عايز أطلع من كل الإطارات والمؤسسات واتحلل من كل حكم , أبحث عن حريه كثيفه وخلاص
نهائي من الشبكه الأخلاقيه السمجه دي ..
.......
مزن .. هل عمل أباك في التدريس ؟؟
هل كنتم تسكنون أمدرمان ؟؟
.......
طلال
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: طلال عفيفي)
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Sometimes you just wonder ... "who has a definition of what the norm is?" ... who is perfect enough to set the majors that we are suppose to follow or even suppose to be ... each and every one of us is a part of our country's culture ... and just like Iman said some people think they have the exclusive right to define this culture ... so let ME break the news to you people ... you are just a part of this community just like I am and this culture is mine as much as it is yours...
Looking back at our history ... you can rarely find two different opinions showed on the surface , the opposite opinion always had to be hidden underground , and that image of the opposition as the weak side had always proved one thing (if you want people to listen ... force them), it starts with a kid who isn't allowed to talk at home and a student who gets punished for questioning the books information, and ended with wars, wars were each side of it is so ignorant about the other, wars that the people got pushed into it not for a cause but "just like that" .... this is how every thing in our part of the world happens ..."just like that"... and why? Because no one dared to ask (why)
I know this country went through a lot of disappointments, regime after another, corruption after anther, tragedy after another , lost after anther , you name it you find it, and this can pretty much be a reason for the carelessness that every body is feeling now, and it could be the reason why we just feel it's better to give up, there are so many reasons, but they are reasons that can push us both ways, to success or to failure, many countries walked out of crises, why should we be the country that never makes it, I don’t want to be idealistic, and I also don’t want to sound like a pessimistic when I say that it's a very tuff walk to make, but it is a fact that this society haven't changed much in more than half a century , in the article Adel quoted there was a paragraph that interested me very much, it says:
{Al-Tijani's neighbours were Jaialiyin, and considered themselves Arabs, unlike their Nubian neighbours. They even claimed descent from Al-Abbas, the Prophet Mohamed's paternal uncle.}
this kind of culture is still very popular, maybe it's no longer spoken loudly about, but it's always in every bodies mind , and that for me is a bigger problem, because a person who stands for what he think is a person you can talk to a person you can discus things with, but when such racist unwritten rules are kept in side people's mind, this'll mean one thing, never to discuss it, never to confess it, never change it, always follow it. Which takes us back to the beginning (we are afraid of being different), and that goes on no matter if different is right or wrong, all I can come out with is(we have to talk things out) no matter how delicate and untellable it seems, we have to start talking it.
Adel you have absolutely enriched the post, there is so much going in my mind that I'd like to talk about _and I think that is obvious from the missy writing I've done_ but there are some things that I'd like to take my time thinking about.
Iman, thanks for bringing the brides of the Nile issue I always wanted to say a couple of words about this issue.
Khalid altyeb, big thanx.
طلال عفيفي
النقطة ليست التحرر من كل الروابط بقدر ماهي المقدرة على اختيار الروابط التي تربطك بمحيطك الخارجي ... انا شخصيا لم اؤمن يوما بالتحرر الكامل لانه شكل حياة فردي بعيد كل البعد عن التكوين الاجتماعي الذي اعشق تنوعه ... لذا ربما نختلف قليلا هنا...
طلال... نعم عمل ابي في التدريس ... و نعم سكنا امدرمان يوما و مازالت تسكنني حتى الان
Every body:
I hope you can take it easy on me this time , because I know what I wrote is very missy, but it's almost every thing I wanted to say plus (lots of grammar mistakes and confused sentences) for free.
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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مزن , سلام..
أما أبو عبيده النيل ههو واحد من أهم الناس في حياتي , وهو إنسان
أحفظ له الكثير من الحب , درسني في مدرسة الخرطوم العالميه ,كان
يدرسني أبغض مواد إلى قلبي , وكان أحب مواطن سوداني إلى روحي , علمني معنى إحترام كل الناس , عرفني على خطاب حسن أحمد وأبوعركي ومهد لي الخطى صوب جمعية حماية البيئه التي كانت المتنفس الوحيد لليال طوال في عز قهرالخرطوم وحزنها .
أبو عبيده نقلني من ولد مراهق يتعاطى المخدرات بضراوه الى شاب محب للحياه والصباح ..
بعد أن عدت من غيبتي الطويله في القاهره , ظللت أطرق باب المنزل في أمدرمان المطل على مكتبة بشير الريح ولم يفتح لي أحد ..
يا ربي .. كم يوحشني هذا الرجل الجميل العظيم والمحترم ..
أرجو يا مزن لو توفرت أي وسيلة إتصال مباشره به أن تمديني بها , وسأكون في غاية الإمتنان يا بنت المعلم ..
طلال
(عدل بواسطة طلال عفيفي on 09-22-2004, 05:51 AM)
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: طلال عفيفي)
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Dear Muzon Well done
questioning anything is the only way forward
As in Descartes systematic doubt
"
With systematic doubt, of questioning all propositions and conclusions using a formal system. Once one has arrived at a certain piece of knowledge, that piece of knowledge then becomes the basis for clearing up other doubts. Descartes systematic doubt became the basis of the Enlightenment and modern scientific tradition. One begins with a proposition, or hypothesis, that is in doubt and then tests that proposition until one arrives, more or less, at a certain conclusion. That does not, however, end the story. When confronted by the conclusions of others, one's job is to doubt those conclusions and redo the tests. Once a hypothesis has been tested and retested, then one can conclude that one has arrived at a "scientific truth." That, of course, doesn't end it, for all scientific truths can be doubted sometime in the future. In other words, although scientists speak about certainty and truth all the time, the foundational epistemology is skeptical: doubt anything and everything
"
.
(عدل بواسطة أحمد أمين on 09-20-2004, 01:11 PM)
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: أحمد أمين)
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dear...ahmad amin
I've always thought that knowledge cant be born with out the (doubt) , and taking thinks for granted is the end of knowledge and a beginning of new dark ages.
We can clearly see that the revelation eras in every civilization always starts with doubting and questioning and even examining the rules that people takes for granted, and we can also see that worse eras in every civilization starts when questioning becomes forbidden.
What people cant understand is that questioning something doesn't mean refusing it and it doesn’t mean underestimating it, when people understand this they'll understand that they don’t have to feel threatened by the person who questions and the don’t have to take this person as an enemy, because if their believes are true than examining them will change nothing, it'll only make it more certain. I face this a lot, being refused, being isolated or even hated, all that just because I dare to ask the question.
We aren't trying to change every thing this culture, we are just trying to change what isn't right, and that's why we have to know what is right and what is not, and that can't happened with out doubting every thing before getting to the conclusion.
I just wish more people can understand that the way you put it... thanx
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: طلال عفيفي)
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طلال ...
لم اكن اعرف انني قابلة للانتفاخ الى هذه الدرجة الى ان قرات كلماتك فامتلئت فخرا و غـــــــــــــرورا ...
ربما ليس من حقي ...
فالحديث لم يكن لي ... لكنني و بعيدا عن كل الحقوق و شعارات الاستقلال سافخر بحديثك عن ابي ...
اما بشان الاتصال به فساحاول ترتيب ذلك في اقرب وقت ممكن ...
سلامي...
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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لو سمحت لى الاخت/الابنة النجيبة مزن، أن أهدى هذا البوست للاخت تماضر شيخ الدين زميلتنا فى المنبر الحر وفى الحياة، التى تمتحن البشر كل يوم..
I ask sister/ daughter Muzan to allow me to dedicate this post to Tumadir, our colleague here in the board, and in life, which is examining the steadfastness, and ideals, and values of people everyday
Why Tumadir? Because she preaches a lot of things, here and there
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Adil Osman)
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adil
This post is yours just as much as its mine, and maybe more...
I would like to know what every one has to say about it including Tumadir and many others...
salam
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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i worked in a school, here in this european country. i was something between a teacher, and a communication facilitator. 2 roles in one. as such i was given the chance to be part of a process. part of the education process in this advanced, and progressive society. what struck me the most, was how teachers treated children. every child was treated as an individual. an individual who got a name. and feelings and an intellect. and of course misgivings. when parents send their children to school, they are involving themselves in a process of social endeavor/investment, even though they are not fully aware of that , or are just following the rules and laws of the state. by law, i mean to say that primary education is compulsory, the same way military service is compulsory in sudan
!
the underlining motive behind sending children to school is the belief/expectation that education shall improve the lives of its recipients. this is true. as education is a means of social mobility. you will get a better job if you had the right qualifications, and skills.
i have started this writing yesterday. but could not proceed. so i decided to post this piece here like this, in the hope that this would help me/inspire me to continue.
you know, some writres strive to see their creative efforts in print. this was in the time of publishing in a newspaper, or a magazine, or a book. but, alas, now we do everything by ourselves. and we are responsible, as individuals for what we write and publish here without any censorship. isn't this amazing!? you write something. you publish it. and other people interact with you in a very democratic and , at times, spontaneous way. this is democray! this is information revolution!
i am lucky to be part of this amazing process
long live freedom of expression
long live writing
long live debating
long live instant and lively interaction between people who are like-minded
enough sloganeerin
good night
i shall be back with more problematic debates
(عدل بواسطة Adil Osman on 09-21-2004, 02:08 PM)
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: Adil Osman)
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Adil ... I don’t know if what I'm going to write is a situation that a lot of people are living like what I feel , or is it just me, but what you wrote brought the subject up to me and I'm just going to say it.
See... sometimes I hold a pen and I start writing what comes into my mind, but most of the time I just can't put every thing I'm thinking about in the paper, not because I can't find the words or I can't explain it, but because I get a feeling that some things aren't to talk or to write about.
When you live in a world where every thing you write have to be rechecked by others and maybe even changed by them, you just get to a place where you start growing your own police department into your head, maybe out of fear or just to live and fight another battle, I don’t know, the only thing I know is that if you ever allowed them to stop you from thinking and wondering about what ever you might want to think about ; only then they've succeed to take you from you, and then no freedom of expression can help you because you' just wouldn't have any thing to express...
See... sometimes I feel that this is what I'm heading into, and it panic me, and some other times I feel I can make it, and I can keep their hands of what's inside my head, and I think it's important for any one to keep worrying and caring about what's inside their #########, and to feel that it's some thing precious and some thing that should be carefully taken care of.
I know it's probably very unclear _ I mean what I wrote_ but when something is very confusing inside your head, it becomes hard to put it clearly on paper.
i think i need a break my self to come back and write something more understandable...
bye for now
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Re: Soul Prostitution (Re: مزن ابوعبيدة النيل)
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now, i work in an organisation where there is genuine representation of the international community, especially countries from the third world.
every time i go to work, i meet people who are originally from the third world. africa, the middle east, asia..etc..etc.
a few of them were born here, in this european country. but all of them speak very good english, and of course their mother tongues.
many of them have become citizens of this country by naturalization.
as professionals, we have our own common room in the place of work.
we would chat and talk about many issues. from language and lingistics, to international affairs.
but our main theme would be the plight of peoples in the third world. especially in africa. in my case, sudan, my country of origin. the origin of species a la darwin!
this is not a joke. or a play on words. no. this is the reality of the world today. in this day and age as they say in the cliche.
many of us, those professionals i am talking about, have migrated or forced to leave their countries. many of them were refugees.
some arrived here as early as 1960s.
the reality of the world today is that, there are first class countries. premiership, if we borrow the football parlance!
and there is "bottom of the league of nations club", including many if not all african nations.
whenever africa comes to mind, images of wars, famines, epidemics, natural disasters, and man-made catastrophies come to the fore.
as if this continent has become synonymous with conflict and death and despair.
and this equivalence is not altogether untrue or exaggerated.
no. take for an example sudan, my country of origin.
civil war in the south
civil war in the west
and the east
and destittution
and poverty of large scale.
and hate.
even people started to hate themselves. and resorted to metaphysics and escapism. young people
(have become either fanatics, or hedonistics( drugs, women
and poverty is crushing what is left of their individuality or independence.
well, some people might think that we are just talking politics all the time.
we didn't choose to do so. if there were adequate economic conditions, and the minimum of freedom, people would have been pursuing their own economic advancement, and try to make things happen.
if people were reasonably autonomous from the state, things would have been different.
if the state were not monopolizing everything, from wealth to power to television, things would have been different.
how do you become an individual and have feelings of worth, when you die from hunger or disease or civil wars?
how do you pursue your own interests and hobbies while any gathering in the capital city is deemed a potential revolution!?
see.. individuality and control of your own destiny is not a theoretical matter, or an intellectual gymnastics!
the state in sudan is a totalitarian state. interfering in each and every aspect of civil life and civic living.
**********
shall be back. Iman: i know you are busy. and your nice post about "friends" is claiming your time and energy!
but, please, give us a glance here in this post, which was created by a young and vivid mind; Muzan's
(عدل بواسطة Adil Osman on 09-23-2004, 08:42 AM)
(عدل بواسطة Adil Osman on 09-23-2004, 08:46 AM)
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مزن ابوعبيدة النيل
Muhib
أحمد الشايقي
Dia eldin khalil
Adil Osman
إيمان أحمد
Khalid Eltayeb
طلال عفيفي
أحمد أمين
فيس بوك
تويتر
انستقرام
يوتيوب
بنتيريست